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tv   The Last Word With Lawrence O Donnell  MSNBC  January 15, 2014 10:00pm-11:01pm PST

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to be fascinating to watch in this new election year. it's a low-profile decision that could have a very high-profile political impact. now it's time for "the last word with lawrence o'donnell." have a great first national poll on chris christie since the bridge scandal broke turns out to be very, very good news for hillary clinton. >> 4 in 10 voters say christie is a bully. >> we has a nation remain stuck in the news traffic jam. >> chris christie's jersey jam. >> come on! >> chris christie and the problems he's had. >> he's a good politician. he's great at defending himself. >> simultaneously, his political career could be finished. >> that's the problem with christie. it's out of his hands. >> in terms of vetting, in terms of the department of justice
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investigations. >> he has a long road ahead. >> i have had no contact with david wildstein in a long time. >> so we see that wall street journal picture. >> appearing to interact with wildstein on september 11, 2013, the third day of the lane closures themselves. >> decisions for key players come as early as tomorrow. >> when they testify, what's going to be his position then? >> if you want to talk about salt in the wound, there's this. ♪ i was with pissed off drivers ♪ ♪ with no place to go >> the boss with jimmy fallon. a parody that had to hurt. ♪ the new jersey traffic jam >> that happened right here in this building last night. tonight, a new nbc news/marist
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polls shows that chris christie has lost his big selling point as the only republican candidate who was ahead of hillary clinton in some polls. in the new nbc news/marist national poll, it finds that if chris christie ran against hillary clinton for president, she would crush him. hillary clinton holds a 13-point lead over chris christie in that poll. just one month ago in the same poll, it was a statistical tie. with hillary clinton only three points ahead of christie, which is within the margin of error of the poll. chris christie plans to meet in florida this weekend with potential donors to his presidential campaign. one of them, stan hubbard, a billionaire from minnesota, told politico tonight, he's got a big problem, because perception is everything. perception is reality. i'm sure he's an honorable, decent guy, but i wonder how the hell did he let this happen? i mean, who did he hire?
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what kind of idiot? it's just ridiculous how stupid. today, rush limbaugh chided republicans who still cling to the hope that chris christie will be the next republican nominee for president. >> i'm not convinced yet that hillary is going to be the nominee. but the thing that gets me here is that, we're going to go back to the same well, we're going to go back another northeastern, moderate republican who has tried to make his bones on the basis of working with democrats, cooperating with democrats, crossing the aisle, cooperating, bipartisanship, working together with government to get things done. it just -- there's no track record of that being a winning formula for the republicans. >> joining me now, executive director richard wolffe and washington post opinion writer in washington.
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rich, this poll showing a real shift towards hillary clinton in that one-on-one race that many observers have been sbeting on as being what the final nominees will be. >> particular erosion for governor christie among independents, which is where, of course, most of these national races are fought out. and that was his big calling card. his idea that he could reach out to these moderates, to people with loose party affiliation. you know, in some cases, you can cherry pick a poll. of course, it's a long time out. most people say this hasn't actually changed their opinion, even though independents seem to be peeling off. the challenge for chris christie is that many people don't know about the story. according to this poll, they haven't even heard about it. and if they haven't heard about it, that means that's exactly what his opponents will do come election time. they will remind people. they will break through and say there's this thing you don't know about, this traffic jam for political retribution.
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that's where the damage lies. >> in fact, funny you should mention that, coming up in the show, i have actually written and produced an attack ad, a fake attack ad. it looks very real, about exactly how they will do this. and jonathan, it is amazingly easy in 30 seconds to take chris christie's words from that press conference the other day, wrap them in an attack ad, which is what i have done. i'm going to show it later. but what i think is really tough for chris christie this weekend. he's going down to florida to talk to the big money guys and he's going to walk in there right after this poll. >> yeah. and he's going to have to answer their questions. i mean, can you imagine mr. hubbard not going up to governor christie and asking him, the tenor and tone of that letter saying what the hell happened? who the hell are these people? christie is there to get money from them.
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and while the governor is, you know, likes to, you know, tell people what to do, maybe even bully them into doing what he wants them to do, well, these are the folks who can bully back to governor christie and say you know what, i don't think i want to give to you or the republican governors association or your impending presidential campaign if you don't give me the answers. >> and remember, rich wolffe, every one of these billionaires lost money on the last presidential election. they all bet on the loser before. so they're coming off a big loss, and those questions that hubbard was asking, they're just basic businessman questions. >> they are. >> every one of these billionaires can be brought down by the people they've hired. their businesses can be destroyed. they know that. they can't have any idiots around them like this. they're looking at christie and seeing a complete failure in executive capacity. >> right. remember his calling card, besides being able to reach out to democrats is about management
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experience, executive leadership and an ability. what ironically hillary clinton experienced in 2007 and '08, once that is cracked, you can't put the egg back together again. whether it's management reputation or the idea that he's the best prospect to win, both of those are fundamentally challenged because of this story. >> jonathan capehart, there's some reporting out there now indicating that some of the people in florida wanted to cancel this event, but christie worked hard to keep it alive. he's also been working the phones to other republican governors around the country saying don't worry, this is going to be fine. it's all going to calm down and i'll be able to run the republican governors association without any problem. so we know what chris christie has been doing in his silence between press conference and state of the state address. he has been trying to hold on to what is left of his national infrastructure and reputation. >> yeah. he's trying to hold it all together.
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i mean, he's the president of the -- or the leader of the republican governors association. this was supposed to be his big moment, coming in off of that huge landslide victory for re-election going into the leadership of the -- running the republican governor's association, which was supposed to lead neatly into a presumed 2016 presidential run for the republican nomination, and this bridgegate story has completely upended that. not only has it caused a crisis of confidence in his leadership as governor, but it's now caused a crisis of confidence, as we're seeing from what we're hearing from billionaires who will be in florida, a crisis in competence among the people, the very people he's going to need to help finance a republican for 2016. >> i want to show once again, i've shown it once again on the program. i want to show what rick santorum said on request the meet the press." he's probably going to run against christie. good chance of it.
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and he makes this point about just how important personnel is in governing. let's listen to what santorum says. >> personnel is policy. even the people that you hire are the policies that are implemented. and what we' sen two, three, four, there's more e-mails. i don't know how many more have come out that's very clear that personnel there was not sensitive to what seemed to be a fairly obvious wrong thing to do. >> right. >> he's just beginning to find his voice about how he talks about this as an opponent to christie. all of those candidates will get much sharper at that. but that's also a businessman's analysis of the christie staff. and it couldn't be more negative. >> yeah, it is. remember, rick santorum hasn't managed anything bigger than a senator's office, which is not inconsiderable, but it's certainly not like -- >> it's 50 people if it's a big state. >> right. it's not executive power, and that's the argument that's going to be deployed against him as it was last time.
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you're trying to be ceo of a country and what you're trying to run. he's already got the argument against something like chris christie. will that work against other governors that will run? probably not. but chris christie could travel the same journey he could, saying pennsylvania is a purple state kind of. and new jersey, he's been able to reach across the aisle. santorum has the argument already, and we're a long, long way out from anyone really sharpening their claws and dig into this one. >> jonathan capehart, it's been a very good week for the clinton presidential campaign. she can just sit home and read the newspapers and her numbers are going up against chris christie. >> right. and in the two since -- the two polls that you showed earlier, that's an eight-point drop against governor christie. he's dropped eight points in a matchup against secretary clinton. but again, as injury chard said in his first answer, you know, these polls are just a snapshot in time.
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these polls are going to go up and down. and the moment hillary clinton makes a definitive answer or even a clear hint that she's going to run for president, guaranteed, her standing will fall. >> richard wolffe and john tan capehart, thank you both for joining me tonight. coming up, the special committee to investigate what roles, if any, these people played in the george washington bridge scandal, will convene tomorrow. one of the members of that committee will join me next. and a "last word" exclusive, a founder of a gay and lesbian republican activist group joins me to say why he quit the republican party this week and why being the president of france is so much fun. it's not just that you get to have affairs. it's what happens to you in the polls when you do. and in a very special "rewrite" tonight, as i mentioned, i have written a fake campaign ad against chris christie, the kind his republican opponents will hit him with on day one if he
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♪ no place left to go ♪ and the press conference went on and on ♪ ♪ it's longer that one of my own damn shows ♪ ♪ some day i don't know when ♪ this will all end ♪ but till then ♪ you're killing the working man ♪ ♪ who's stuck in governor chris christie ♪ ♪ new jersey traffic jam ♪ [ woman ] the day of my first presentation?
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to be asking questions and we expect his cooperation. >> the speaker ott new jersey assembly named 12 members of the new special committee that will investigate what happened at the george washington bridge. and who among chris christie and his staff knew about it and when did they know about it. that special committee, which consists of both democrats and republicans will officially convene tomorrow. they will be assisted by reid schar, who has been hired as council to that committee. reid schar was the lead investigation tor and one of the prosecutors in the corruption trial and conviction of former illinois governor rob blagojevich. the bridge scandal has already cost four members of chris christie's team their jobs. joining me now is new jersey senate democratic leader loretta weinberg, who will lead the senate's investigation and assembly majority leader lou greenwald, one of the member of the assembly's special committee. senator weinberg, i don't get why you're running two different
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committees at the same time investigating this. >> well, actually, i would have preferred that we join together into one committee, but we haven't been able to work that out at present time. since john and i worked together for a number of months on this issue, i'm very confident we'll be working together over the next few months. >> i want to show a clip of the press conference, which i -- i thought this was one of the most important moments in the press conference. the governor was asked what he will do if he's facing a temperature. this is after he said he will cooperate fully with all the investigations. let's listen to this. >> if you were to get a subpoena for whatever reason, what would you do? >> i'm not going to speculate on that. matt? >> there's the governor saying if you give me a subpoena, i
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might comply, i might not. obviously he's going to be very legalistic about it, and he doesn't sound there like someone who's going to cooperate. >> well look, i think talking about sending a subpoena to the governor of the state of new jersey at this point, we're getting way ahead of ourselves. i think what we've done on the assembly side is a very swift approach to this. there needs to be a systematic and methodical approach to these proceedings and these investigations. i think anyone who wants to test our resolve to get to the bottom of this only needs to look at the attorney that we hired today in reid schar. i think it says all it needs to about our determination to find what was the root of this abuse of power and how deep it went. >> senator weinberg, it's inconceivable to me that these investigations can proceed
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without some kind of subpoena requests being delivered to the governor himself for phone records, for all sorts of records that he would have. and ultimately, for his personal testimony. how can these committees possibly do their work without asking the governor what did you know? >> well, i would assume that as information is ferreted out, as subpoenas are answered, as we get documents, we could very well get to that point, but i don't think, lawrence, that we're actually there yet. let me just talk about what i know. because i've been involved with this since september. since september 19 when i wrote to the port authority with a copy to governor christie and to, in fact, copy to david sampson, the chairperson of the port authority, asking questions four months ago. i have yet to hear one answer, and what i find really surprising about the governor is
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kind of this lack of curiosity about all of this. and you've played some excerpts from various press conferences that he's had. but the one on december 2 where he still talked about dedicated lanes, something like that. everybody knows there are no dedicated lanes to ft. lee. that was a cover-up. i can't think of a nicer word to describe what took place. so this is already four months old, of question, of committee hearings, of subpoenas. no answers. and i just find it very peculiar that not one port authority commissioner has ever said in the last four months, boy, i would like to get to the bottom of this? you have what you outlined in your chart, you have four very, very close chris christie allies who either resigned under pressure or were fired. this is one of the most bizarre
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incidents i have ever been involved with or seen in all the years i've been in public service and in politics. >> should david sampson, who hasn't responded to you, resign? >> well, i think david sampson owes us an explanation. and based upon his explanation, then i would make the next decision, but certainly i appeared before three full port authority commission meetings. they sat back, all of these men, sat -- they happened to be all male commissioners, pardon me for a moment of chauvinism. they sat back, looked at me like they were interested. i actually never heard their voices, except to say the meeting is open and the meeting is now closed. >> they never thought you could penetrate the christie wall. >> well, they didn't know me very well. >> senator greenwald, will you be issuing subpoenas to bridget anne kelly and any others this week?
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>> we will be issues further subpoenas. the timing and the dates of those and the order by which they will go out will be directed by our council reid schar. bridget kelly is clearly, as is mr. stepien people of interest that we will pursue and was would be happy to have them come before the committee and share their insight. >> do you expect the subpoenas will work their way up the pyramid, starting with the lower ranking people, moving towards the center of power? >> lawrence, i think that's exactly right. again, i think we're going to take our advice from our council, but i think where we want to go is based on the documents we've received already, the people that have been identified and use that as a kind of jigsaw puzzle to start to identify and clarify this picture. with the redactions, that picture right now is unclear.
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we've asked for complete clean copies of those documents which may obviously give us a chris call clear picture. i think as that starts to come in, it will identify really a road map again to where this abuse of power began, how deep it goes and whether or not it goes all the way up directly to the governor itself. our position is we will follow the evidence wherever it goes. and however high that goes. i think making sure that you do not overreach too soon is very important in making sure that the investigation is done well, does not infringe upon anybody's constitutional rights, and ultimately results in the outcome, which is to find again where that abuse began and whose idea that was, who knew about it, and when they knew about it. and the last thing, lawrence, i would say, i hear the governor's clip again that he's encouraging his people to answer questions and cooperate. it would be a big help if when they came before the committee, they did not feel the need to take the fifth amendment if they there's a sense to cooperate.
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>> i admire your review and restraint about this, as you should be, since you're part of the investigation. it's very clear to me that chris christie wanted wildstein to take the fifth amendment the other day. that chris christie would be in a worse place today if he didn't. and i don't believe him for one second when he says he wants all his people to cooperate. but i can say that and you shouldn't. thank you both very much for joining me tonight. new jersey senate democratic leader, loretta weinberg and lou greenwald. thank you for joining me tonight. >> thank you, lawrence. coming up, in his press conference the other day, chris christie didn't know it, but he was writing the attack ads that his opponents will use against him when he runs for president. you and maybe chris christie will be amazed to see how easy it is to campaign against him using his own words. and next, "the last word" exclusive. the founder of after gay and
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lesbian republican group says he's not a republican anymore. he will join me next. welcome back. how is everything? there's nothing like being your own boss! and my customers are really liking your flat rate shipping. fedex one rate. really makes my life easier. maybe a promotion is in order. good news. i got a new title. and a raise? management couldn't make that happen.
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>> the supreme court said this was a matter for the states to decide, and i know our court a few years ago, the supreme court had said they didn't impart -- basically, they didn't see any biological evidence to support marriage being between a man and a woman and, you know, they need
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some basic plumbing lessons. >> jimmy lasalvia doesn't want to be in the same political party as guys who say things like that. he's the founder of go proud, the conservative activist group of gay and lesbian republicans. monday, jimmy lasalvia posted this on his blog. i just can't bring myself to carry the republican label any longer. you see, i just don't agree with the big government conservatives who run the party now. the other reason i am leaving is the tolerance of bigotry in the gop. the current leadership lacks the courage to stand up to it. i'm not sure they ever will. i have worked hard to help create an atmosphere on the right where conservatives can openly support gay americans, and even support same-sex marriage. in that effort, we have won. but there is more work to do to root out the anti-gay and other forms of bigotry in the party. so i changed my voter registration.
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no party. joining me now in a "last word" exclusive is co-founder and former executive director of go proud, jimmy lasalvia. thank you very, very much for joining us tonight. we out here on the other side watching gay republicans over the last few years have just wondered how you can bear what you've born within that party. and i just want to show one clip of a moment during the republican presidential primaries, during those debates. and i want to get your reaction to what you were feeling when you saw this. let's watch this. >> in 2010, when i was deployed to iraq, i had to lie about who i was because i'm a gay soldier. i didn't want to lose my job. my question is, under one of your presidencies, do you intend to circumvent the progress that's been made for gay and lesbian soldiers in the military? [ booing ] >> what were you feeling when your party was booing?
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>> well, lawrence, i was there that night in florida when that question was asked. and i certainly reacted strongly and like most americans thought about my gay friends and family who were serving in the military at that time. at that time, having to be in the closet or excuse me, no, that was after don't ask don't tell was repealed. but at that time, it was -- it was something that hit home for me. but i have to tell you, you know, you asked me how could i do it? the reason i did it for so long is because the grassroots of the conservative movement, the activists in the grassroots aren't that way. and my friends in the conservative movement have always been accepting and
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supportive of me and other gay americans. it's frankly the leadership that's out of touch. the leadership of the republican party is so out of touch they don't even know how their own base feels. and they're so beholden and paralyzed by the fear of backlash from the forces of intolerance on the right that they tolerate moments such as that or others. i mean, more recently, you had republican national committee man in michigan, he has had many anti-gay rants, and just recently an anti-muslim rant on facebook that's gone uncommented on. and not denounced by the chairman. and there's just so many examples of times when leadership of the republican party has tolerated bigotry that it's just unacceptable in 2014. and i came to realize that the
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republican party just doesn't represent my principles and values. and i'm not alone. 42% of the americans identify as independents and now i'm one of them. i'm in the new majority of people who don't feel represented by either party. and, you know, i still care about our country and i want to work with that 42% to make our country better. and i just happened to do it as a republican. >> you've been in real political strategy discussions. what do you think is the calculation in allow, if not steering his party in this anti-gay bigoted direction. >> well, honestly, i think chairman priebus intellectually knows that bigotry in the party is detrimental to winning elections.
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he knows that it's causing people to turn away from the republicans, but you know, he just doesn't have a backbone to stand up to them. i mean, there are forces on the right who make their living demonizing gay people, and chairman priebus doesn't have the backbone to stand up to them. you know, here's the thing, too many in leadership in the republican party have counted on a small sliver of voters as their count-on voters every election. and they're so afraid of giving up those people that they don't realize how many multitudes of others they're turning off by kowtowing to them. >> jimmy lasalvia, founder of go proud. thank you very much for joining us tonight, jimmy. and enjoy your new political independence. >> i love the freedom, thank you.
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>> thank you. coming up, what happens when the president gets caught leading a rendezvous with a much younger woman not his wife? well, in the united states, we would go into full scale scandal coverage, and someone would be mentioning impeachment within the first five minutes. in france, the french president would just ask the people to respect his privacy and that is exactly what the french people are doing this week. while the president calmly considers promoting his second lady to first lady. that's coming up. [ male announcer ] this is the story of the little room over the pizza place on chestnut street the modest first floor bedroom in tallinn, estonia and the southbound bus barreling down i-95.
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i do wonder if this had happened in nevada would it have gotten much attention. >> that was tom brokaw making the point that if some obscure governor has caused a traffic jam or his staff had kwauzed a traffic jam, the national media wouldn't be spending quite as much time on that scandal as we have devoted to what chris christie's team was up to at the george washington bridge. in fact, we probably wouldn't be spending any time on that version of the scandal. but the christie version involves not just any bridge. it involves arguably the most important bridge in the world. and definitely the busiest bridge in the world. and that bridge touches on one end the capital city of the american news media. indeed, a significant chunk of the national news media uses that bridge to get to work every day. so you are tampering with their
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bridge when you tamper with the george washington bridge. and chris christie is not butch otter. who's butch otter? butch otter is the governor of idaho who i'm sure you've all heard of but i had never heard of until today when i went searching for the name of a governor i had never heard of just to help make this point. and the point is that chris christie is politically and only politically the most important in america. which i guess from the american perspective, of course, makes him the most politically important governor in the world. i actually think jerry brown and andrew cuomo are way more important governors because they govern bigger, more important states than new jersey with, of course, bigger budgets than new jersey. but politically, chris christie is our most important governor because he has been regarded by most of the news media as a clear front-runner, if not the
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front-runner for the next republican presidential nomination. when you combine the most important bridge in the world with the politically most important governor in the world, you get the most important traffic jam in the world. and so yeah, the national news media is on this case. big time. and we're going to stay on the case. and no one is enjoying watching chris christie squirm more than republicans. specifically these republicans who hope to be the next republican nominee for president. if chris christie enters the race for president against these guys, they are going to hit him with attack ads on day one. they will use chris christie's own words against him. now, i'm going to show you an example of how easy it is to do that. i wrote this commercial while chris christie was actually still doing his press conference. >> what kind of president would chris christie be?
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>> i delegate enormous authority to my staff and enormous authority to my cabinet. >> could we trust president christie's staff and cabinet? >> i am embarrassed and humiliated by the conduct of some of the people on my team. >> chris christie embarrassed and humiliated new jersey. don't let chris christie embarrass and humiliate america. >> and christie's republican opponents for the presidential nomination will keep that kind of ad coming every day. they're very easy to write, because christie has written those ads for them. with that press conference. i mean, i wrote that ad in a few minutes. just sitting there listening to him, just grabbed those quotes and wrote it. you can do this at home. it's easy. just take lines from christie's press conference and wrap them in voiceovers about christie's inability to manage his staff and what that would mean if he was in the white house, if he was picking the attorney general, if he was picking the director of the irs.
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here are just some of the lines that you can use in writing these kinds of commercials. these work perfectly well. >> the fact is that mistakes were made and i'm responsible for those mistakes. i am heart broken that someone who i permitted to be in that circle of trust for the last five years betrayed my trust. i believed that if i look someone in the eye who i worked with and trusted and asked them, that i would get an honest answer. maybe that was naive, but that's what i believed. i'm sad. i'm sad. that's the predominant emotion i feel right now. is sadness. sadness that i was betrayed by a member of my staff, sadness that i had people who i entrusted with important jobs, who acted completely inappropriately. a person who i counted on and
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trusted for five years betrayed me. a person who i gave a high government office to betrayed me. listen, all i can do is apologize for the conduct of people who worked for me. i have absolutely nothing to hide. >> absolutely nothing to hide. yeah butch otter has a better chance of becoming president of the united states than chris christie does. when you only have one hand, you're not doing anything as fast as you used to, which is funny, 'cause i still do it better than her. you know, i don't think i was meant to sweep. it's a little frustrating. look. [ zach ] i can't help out as much as i used to. do you need help? [ doorbell rings ] let's open it up. it's a swiffer sweeper. it's a swiffer dusters. it can extend so i don't have to get on the step stool. i don't know how it stays on there. it's like a dirt magnet -- just like my kids. [ afi ] this is a danger zone. that is crazy.
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ah-ha-ha! [ zach ] yeah. no, this definitely beats hanging out on a step ladder. what's up, baby? hout our lives.y role one a day men's 50+ is a complete multivitamin designed for men's health concerns as we age. with 7 antioxidants to support cell health. one a day men's 50+. with 7 antioxidants to support cell health. ♪ nothing says, "you're my #1 copilot," like a milk-bone biscuit. ♪ say it with milk-bone.
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hudson when she was telling people to stay away from her old city of boston.
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that was the french government's warning. that was the french government's warning. today, the french console listened to students stories about their neighborhood and why french tourists should come and visit. up next, more from france in tonight's episode of "all the president's women." at farmers, we make you smarter about insurance. because what you don't know, can hurt you. what if you didn't know that posting your travel plans online may attract burglars? [woman] off to hawaii!
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what if you didn't know that as the price of gold rises, so should the coverage on your jewelry? [prospector] ahh! what if you didn't know that kitty litter can help you out of a slippery situation? the more you know, the better you can plan for what's ahead. talk to farmers and get smarter about your insurance. ♪ we are farmers bum - pa - dum, bum - bum - bum - bum♪ when i first started shopping for a hybrid... i didn't even look at anything else. i just assumed you went and bought a prius. so this time around we were able to do some research and we ended up getting a ford...
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which we love. it's been a wonderful switch. it has everything that you could want in a car. it's the most fun to drive... because it's the most hi tech inside... i think this c-max can run circles around the prius... the biggest difference would definitely be the acceleration of the car... if you can get someone to test-drive a c-max... they would end up buying this more times than not. >> have you been having an affair with helen baldwin while here at the white house? >> he's asking because -- >> i should hit you in the face. >> he's asking because -- >> i know why he's asking. i know why he's asking. i understand why you're here. i've spoken with c.j. yes. >> such is the agony of life in the bubble of american politics when a man is just a man.
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but french politics is a much less agonizing bubble when it comes to affairs anyway, unless you are the current french first lady who was reportedly admitted to the hospital to be treated for shock upon learning, along with the re of france, that the president is seeing another woman. the president himself is in no trouble at all as a result of this. the first lady is not actually the president's wife. she is just his first lady. they have never married, as all of france knows, long before francois hollande ran for president, his relationship with his current first lady began when he was in a 23-year relationship with the mother of his four children whom, of course, he never married. 600 journalists showed up for the president's news conference on the economy yesterday. 600, jay carney, count them. and most of them were actually interested in the economy.
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but the recent revelation that the president was seeing another woman did come up. >> for those of you who didn't get all of that, what he said was everyone in his personal life can go through difficult periods. this is the case for us. these are painful moments, but i have one principle -- private matters should be dealt with privately. joining me now, msnbc's crystal ball and marcus mavery who was based in paris for several years. crystal, that's my motto. private matters should be dealt with privately.
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what a country, huh? talk about an advanced civilization. we are, i think, 300 years behind them on this. >> yeah. well, i disagree with part of that. >> i thought you might. you old fashioned married ladies. i thought you might. >> 77% of french voters say it should be a private affair. so they very much agree with the president here. >> i am so french. >> deeply interested in this story, buying the magazines and chewing over all the details, but in terms of their already bad opinion of the president, it's not really changing that. i actually think we're a bit further along in america than you give us credit for. if you think about the fact that mark sanford had an affair, it was more of a problem because he lied about where he was. he was governor at the time, no one could find him. there was an abuse of state resources, his wife was someone who was known and beloved in the state, and people forgave him in this deeply conservative southern state and re-elected him. so i actually think that we are a bit further along than maybe you think. >> so south carolina is frencher
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than we think. >> frencher than we think. frencher than they think as well. >> the french media broke the rules here. they took pictures of him coming out of the rendezvous spot with the younger woman, who happens to be an act stress. >> young enough to be his daughter. there is nothing surprising about this story as all, except for there's interest in this story in france. it's very dramatic. the partner of the president went to the hospital from a broken heart. i must be in the hospital, i can't believe this happened to me. she's a total drama queen. she wasn't like in france before this happened. she's a journalist. journalists can't stand her. she said there's no conflict of interest.
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in france, all these things are terribly normal. the french thinking is it's very puritanical to care about a marital affair. in fact, they say it's immature to not have a marital affair. >> crystal ball, i have no question. i'm still just delighting in all of that. >> i remember when bill clinton had his issue. the reaction from france in particular was what's the big deal? we don't understand what the fuss is all about. we're interested in your perspective, because it seems to me, like i was say, it's not changing their opinion of the president. they don't think that this is an important matter. they don't think it's a matter that should really bear on whether or not he's doing a good job as a president. but they are still interested in the details because they're
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human. it's sex and it's famous people. all of that, they're still interested in. >> the helmet meaning motorcycle helmet? i want to get all the terms clarified. the first lady had a very unfrench reaction to this. french women don't go into shock over these discoveries normally. >> no. normally you expect a reaction might be for the wife to have her own affair. that might be more normal. this is very abnormal what valerie is doing. and, in fact, i think, you know, the only political effect it's had so far is that his score, his popularity amongst french women has actually increased because he was seen as such a horrible dweeb. he was one of the most unpopular french presidents in history. >> and seen as indecisive. >> french women are reacting positively to this. he might have gotten higher numbers if he used the moped to her house.
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he was recognized by reporters by the shoes he was bearing, which are kind of old shoes. >> oh, shoes. i want you to get every night's last word. i want to talk about this every night. it's fantastic. thank you both for talking to me tonight. the battle of ft lee. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. the web begins to tighten as the investigators of the new jersey governor select a council and move towards the issue of subpoenas, getting christie's people in the chair and getting them under oath is the main issue.


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